Why can't we all just get along or should we?
I had a recent email exchange over one of those forwarded, “Send this to all of your friends if you are a REAL Christian,” kinds of emails. I don’t fault people who send these out. At least they believe in something and are doing something about it. I do get frustrated about the lack of personal research and thought out belief behind the emails.
Below is the original email and the exchange that follows. Read it and then I will comment below.
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Subject: Fw: [Fwd: Fw: She really was a traitor]
I understand the politics of the time and I understand forgivness, but some things should not be forgotten, especially when so many of the folks she hurt and betrayed are still here and suffering.
She really was a traitor
A TRAITOR IS ABOUT TO BE HONORED KEEP THIS MOVING ACROSS
This is for all the kids born in the 70's who do not remember, and didn't have to bear the burden that our fathers, mothers and older brothers and sisters had to bear.
Jane Fonda is being honored as one of the "100 Women of the Century."
BY BARBRA WALTERS
Unfortunately, many have forgotten and still countless others have never known how Ms. Fonda betrayed not only the idea of our country, but specific men who served and sacrificed during
The first part of this is from an F-4E pilot
The pilot's name is Jerry Driscoll, a River Rat.
Dragged from a stinking cesspit of a cell, cleaned, fed, and dressed in clean PJ's, he was ordered to describe for a visiting American "Peace Activist" the "lenient and humane treatment" he'd received.
He spat at Ms. Fonda, was clubbed, and was dragged away. During the subsequent beating, he fell forward on to the
In 1978, the Air Force Colonel still suffered from double vision (which permanently ended his flying career) from the Commandant's frenzied application of a wooden baton.
From 1963-65, Col. Larry Carrigan was in the 47FW/DO (F-4E's). He spent 6 years in the "Hanoi Hilton",,, the first three of which his family only knew he was "missing in action". His wife lived on faith that he was still alive. His group, too, got the cleaned-up, fed and clothed routine in preparation for a "peace delegation" visit. They, however, had time and devised a plan to get word to the world that they were alive and still survived. Each man secreted a tiny piece of paper, with his Social Security Number on it, in the palm of his hand.
When paraded before Ms. Fonda and a cameraman, she walked the line, shaking each man's hand and asking little encouraging snippets like: "Aren't you sorry you bombed babies?" and "Are you grateful for the humane treatment from your benevolent captors?" Believing this HAD to be an act, they each palmed her their sliver of paper. She took them all without missing a beat. At the end of the line and once the camera stopped rolling, to the shocked disbelief of the POWs, she turned to the officer in charge and handed him all the little pieces of paper.
Three men died from the subsequent beatings. Colonel Carrigan was almost number four but he survived, which is the only reason we know of her actions that day.
I was a civilian economic development advisor in
I spent 27 months in solitary confinement; one year in a cage in
We were Jane Fonda's "war criminals."
When Jane Fonda was in
I said yes, for I wanted to tell her about the real treatment we POWs received... and how different it was from the treatment purported by the North Vietnamese, and parroted by her as "humane and lenient."
Because of this, I spent three days on a rocky floor on my knees, with my arms outstretched with a large steel weights placed on my hands, and beaten with a bamboo cane.
I had the opportunity to meet with Jane Fonda soon after I was released. I asked her if she would be willing to debate me on TV. She never did answer me.
These first-hand experiences do not exemplify someone who should be honored as part of "100 Years of Great Women." Lest we forget..." 100 Years of Great Women" should never include a traitor whose hands are covered with the blood of so many patriots.
There are few things I have strong visceral reactions to, but Hanoi Jane's participation in blatant treason, is one of them. Please take the time to forward to as many people as you possibly can. It will eventually end up on her computer and she needs to know that we will never forget. RONALD D. SAMPSON, CMSgt, USAF 716 Maintenance Squadron, Chief of Maintenance DSN: 875-6431 COMM: 883-6343
PLEASE HELP BY SENDING THIS TO EVERYONE IN YOUR ADDRESS BOOK. IF ENOUGH PEOPLE SEE THIS MAYBE HER STATUS WILL CHANGE
My Response
There is no excusing her behavior in the past, but is it forgivable? As Christians, we are not Republicans or Patriots first. We are ambassadors of Christ and as such, his love and forgiveness is preeminent.
Should she apologize for her behavior? Personally, I think so. Should she be honored as one of the 100 Women of the Century? I don’t think so, but that is my opinion. If we knew the stories of some of the other women and men for that matter, few should be honored that are on those lists. But that’s politics.
But as a Christian, I don’t want to be known for my judgment of her. I want Jesus response to shine through. Remember the woman caught in adultery. Jesus bent down and wrote something in the sand and, knowing she was guilty, asked the person who had never done anything wrong to strike first. He did not excuse her behavior, and he did tell her to stop doing what she was doing, but his compassion was what changed her.
Is Jane guilty of treason? That’s a legal matter. Is what she did terrible? Absolutely. Should she be condemned? In the worlds eyes, maybe, but in God’s eyes she has no condemnation. Read below.
This was taken from truthorfiction.com, but there are numerous other websites that confirm and affirm it.
Summary of Rumor:
Jane Fonda is said to have "accepted Christ as her personal Savior" and is being helped in her new faith by Christians in the
The Truth:
According to those who were close to Jane Fonda when she first made the decision to declare her Christianity 1n 1998, she was enthusiastic about her decision to become a Christian and was deeply affected by the Christians who were in her life at that time.
According to published articles, she was attending the
Fonda confirmed her Christian commitment and that she was attending the church in an interview in Oprah Winfrey's O magazine in 2000.
She had said very little about her faith until 2005 when she published her book, "My Life So Far."
In the book she said that when she turned 60 and began to deal with an eating disorder in her life, she also felt that something was missing and turned to Christianity.
She had not told her husband Ted Turner about becoming a Christian but when he learned of it, she says it was one of the factors that broke up their marriage.
She said that she knows it was not fair to keep the news of her faith from him, but that she was "...yearning for the spiritual that I had not had. And I knew that if I told him or asked him before I did it, that he would talk me out of it."
Turner is from a Christian background and even once considered becoming a missionary, but has been critical of Christianity and once called it "a religion for losers" but later apologized.
In her book, Fonda talks openly and passionately about her Christianity and how much it has meant to her but that like her life, her faith is still progressing.
When she made the decision to become a Christian it was within the context of Evangelical Christian friendships but in the book she avoids describing that event in detail.
She said she regards herself as a "feminist Christian" and is trying to reconcile that what she calls the "patriarchal, hierarchal structure" of Christianity.
His Reply
To Jim Wern,
Sorry just couldn’t let this one go by
I haven’t met you, but I have met some of the men from the Hanoi Hilton. Fonda’s Christian conversion has not stopped her from recent anti war – Anti American activities in
I believe the Gospel per forgiveness. I have taught it in men’s studies for years. You forgot about the repentance part. She has never apologized, repented, tried to right the wrongs, and is still at anti American activities per the press. Actions speak louder than words. Per your last sentence she is trying to structure a Christian response to her own feminist thinking rather than surrendering. –justifying her actions rather than confessing, repenting, and trying to restore the wrong. We all fall short of the glory etc. but she continues to battle on against
The law per treason is clear. The deaths and torture that she was personally responsible for are no less heinous than that of other monsters. Your response is what empowers her and her kind. She has never repented and is in fact still at it. Read the writings of Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Adams, If you don’t think we can be Americans—patriots etc. at the same time we are Christians. Standing up for right had better come from the church or the other side will dictate it. Look around you. If you don’t like what has become of your society perhaps you can examine the fall of the church from responsibility and decide to do something about it. This ain’t politics it is survival. The leader ship from the pulpits is gone. Corral Ridge ministries and a few others are in the fight. Where are you?. Our young are as corrupt as the world. There are no moral absolutes being taught. The social decay in the church is as bad as out of the church. Guess what the letter from Paul would be to your church—or mine.
Frankly I think your response is part of the problem from the wishy washy pulpit. If the pulpits rang with the righteous fervor and commitment of old you would not be dismissing and letting slide her atrocities. Right is right and wrong is wrong.
If she accepts the award per her past rather than turning it down and publicly repenting it will tell you more about her character and the left’s purpose for her. If she had been responsible for the torture of your brother or your child and all your neighbors children—and was at it again—would you not stop her and her handlers or would you quote out of context bible verses as you have done here? She accepted another award from the North Vietnamese while we were at war with them. Her picture along with John Kerry’s hangs in their war museum as North Vietnamese War heroes. Oh ya.
The un-apologized for atrocities are bygones if you want to see it that way—(personally I think she should be brought to justice just as the Nazis post war criminals have been.)-- But her recent activities are again putting our sons and daughters in harms way again. If you think it is a legal matter only, or a politics matter only, ask the men who were and are there and their families.
All over the world your Christian brothers and their families are being put to death by Islamic fundamentalists. Whoa I said Islamic fundamentalists—those who believe in the fundamentals of the Muslim faith. We focus on the tiny percent of those who are the warriors of the fundamental Muslim faith and overlook the vast armies of people who support and condone their activities. Any one who claims to be a Muslim and follows the Koran has to believe that the infidels must convert or be put to the sword. Get it straight in your head that no matter what their political patter is still that is what the “peaceful” Muslims believe. It is a fundemental of their faith.
Do you or your church have a missionary out reach to Muslims? Of course not, that would be too scary. You would actually have to address the problem, acknowledge it, and put your self in harms way. I supported a man who studied to be a Muslim priest for years converted and became a Christian minister. !0 years ago he had a program on KPRZ called Evangelize Muslims Now. He was hunted threatened and finally driven into hiding by the Muslims. His own family in
This is not live and let live. To them it is convert or die. It is not too late to get into the battle. I do believe that the only way to diffuse the problem is to evangelize Muslims. You can kill off their present army but you can’t change their belief with war. The church has to do that.
What if we don’t win the war on Islamic terrorism? You are dead and all your church will convert or be put to the sword. Get a clue what this is about and the enormity of it. Then focus and get to work. Physical battle is only part of the solution. Evangelizing is the permanent way and only the church can do that.
Are your ready to lead men into battle against that true and present danger? Or will you wishy wash it away while our young men die to keep the tide from washing over your community and family and mine. The battle is coming to you – it is in fact here -- in your neighborhood.
Ignoring the truth per Fonda and defending her while she still uses her celebrity status to put more of our young people and our whole society in harms way is just a dribbling symptom of the real problem. (What is there to celebrate about her that gives her Celebrity status—Think about it.) She is responsible for more murder and torture than Ted Bundy. That is the documented truth.
My second reply
This came from Scott.
Great to hear about Jane Fonda. If it is true about her confessing Christ I find it even more interesting that this e-mail is a hoax. We are in a spiritual battle and I can't help but think that spreading these rumors about her are a part of Satan's strategy. There are parts of it that are true but there are significant parts that are not. Two of the three stories are denied by the named POW's including the SSN slips of paper, story. The source of the email is not known.
Please don’t mistake my lack of judgment toward Jane with a lack of feelings on the issue. I am not a war hater. I think the
That being said, my faith and my nationalism are entirely separate.
I believe that our problem is not wishy washy preaching, (this coming from a man who has an MDiv. from Masters Seminary), but preachers who have separated themselves in their ivory pulpits and hid behind theology (not truth) instead of embracing God’s mandate to love Him and love people. It’s a lot easier to judge a Muslim than to love them. The only people Christ ever condemned were the self righteous religious leaders. All others he showed compassion and love.
As for evangelizing Muslims, as a matter of fact, I do support a couple of missionaries. Ikbal and Kundan Massey. They have an incredible outreach to Muslims. In fact Ikbal is reaching out my providing child care for a temple. Should she show love to these children or tell them they are going to hell?
I agree there is a battle going on. But as Paul said, our battle is not against flesh and blood. We need to be on our knees. We need to be asking God what He wants us to do. We need to be repenting of the atrocities done in the name of Christ that Christ would never put his name to (the Crusades, the Nazi concentration camps, gay killings, abortion clinic bombings) and be vigilant about showing the world the true face of Christ, one beaten and bruised for our sins with arms of love outstretched on a cross. I believe scripture tells us that it is God’s kindness that leads us to repentance, not wrath against evil.
And you mentioned repentance. I think it would be great if Jane came out and said that she was wrong. Is it a requirement for salvation? I don’t think you are prepared to have that theological debate. Nor would I spend time haggling that issue with you, because frankly, I don’t want to waste my time with someone who is already in the kingdom. I would much rather spend my time telling someone about a God who loves them. In fact, I have to go. I have a neighbor I have been spending time with, that has just started opening up about life and family and spirituality. I think it would be a better steward of my time to be God’s ambassador of hope to him.
I could sit here and argue morality and politics and war, but the truth is I don’t know of anyone who has ever come to Christ because we created a law against homosexuals or because we put a Christian in the Whitehouse or fought a war against terrorism, but I know of many people who have found Christ in a gay relationship because someone loved them enough to be their friend and share Gods love. I know of others who, under communist governments, received Christ through rogue ministries. There have even been some who have been Christ to their enemies in war torn countries. It’s high time we stopped promoting the cause of democracy, which will never save anyone, and live the love of God.
Would I die for my country? Yes I would and you can ask the people that know me. I am glad I live in
You have more passion than most Christians I know. Don’t loose that. God took a fireball named Paul and turned the Gentile world toward Christ. But make sure you are passionate about the right things. I would hate to see this kind of energy wasted on issues that do not have an eternal pay off. Please don’t let my passion kill yours, but let the two feed each other as iron sharpens iron and let’s take it to the streets where people are looking for a passionate God who loves them deeply and wants them wholly as His children. Let’s burn for Him so others won’t burn without Him.
Love in Christ,
Jim Wern
God Follower
www.spiritualtraveler.blogspot.com
Now my concluding thoughts.
I like this guy. Don’t tell him I said that. He might take offence. But we are on the same side. We both want to share Christ with the world. We may have two radically different ways of doing it, but we want the same thing.
So how do we stop fighting each other and start addressing the real problem. That problem being that Christians have lost their influence in society because we are perceived as radical, right wing, extremists that are clueless and judgmental and loveless. The funny thing is that Jesus was just the opposite (except for radical). He was a cultural reshaper, an educated thinker, a people lover and compassion giver. Show me someone like that today and I will show you someone that people will follow and listen to.
Am I asking too much or not enough? Maybe the question is not “why can’t we all just get along,” and instead should be “how can we catalyze Christ in each other?” Our encounters with the body of Christ should energize the work of the Spirit in each of us. We should be like allies on the field of battle. Different armies in a common war. Different orders, same enemy. I don’t care if you subscribe to the Bible Answer Man, John MacArthur, Andy Stanley, Erwin McManus, Rick Warren or Bill Hybels, we are all on the same side.
First, Paul did have something to say about positioning yourself behind a certain leader. “I am of Paul, I am of Apollos, I am of Peter.” We are of Christ. But it’s not their faults. They would not want people to follow them. They would point to Christ. It’s us who are guilty of man following. Maybe if we did less of it and more of God following, we might actually get somewhere.
Well, enough ranting. I think there needs to be a little less talk and a lot more action. Now I need to go ask God if I need to repent of anything I said and see if there was anything He wanted to say.
posted by Spiritual Traveler at 8:27 PM
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